EP186: Balancing Dreams and Dermatology: A Conversation with Dr. Luiza Kalil

A Journey with Dr. Luiza Laborne Kalil

In this episode of The Girl Doc Survival Guide, Christine speaks with Dr. Luiza Laborne Kalil, a dermatologist specializing in hair loss and an Assistant Professor at Yale. Dr. Kalil shares her inspiring journey from Brazil to the US, including her rapid completion of the USMLE tests while balancing work and family life. They discuss the challenges of work-life balance, finding motivation, and the importance of pursuing one's dreams. Dr. Kalil emphasizes the value of dedication and the lessons she hopes to impart to her daughters through her actions. The conversation also touches on the pressures of perfection in medicine and the importance of doing what makes you happy.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:40 Personal Anecdote: Choosing Dermatology

02:31 Journey from Brazil to the US

07:51 Balancing Career and Family

12:41 Final Thoughts and Advice

Transcript

Christine Ko: [00:00:00] Welcome back to The Girl Doc Survival Guide. Today I'm happy to be with Dr. Luiza Laborne Kalil, MD. Dr. Luiza Laborne Kalil, MD is a dermatologist with expertise in hair loss. She trained in Brazil and subsequently did a postdoctoral fellowship at Yale University with Dr. Brett King. She's currently an Assistant Professor in the Yale Department of Dermatology. She was previously an Assistant Professor of Dermatology in Brazil at Faculdade Ciências Médicas Jimenez Jerais for five years. Welcome to Luiza. 

Luiza Kalil: Hi Christine. Thanks for having me here today. I am so happy to be here.

Christine Ko: Thank you for doing this. Can you first share a personal anecdote? 

Luiza Kalil: Yeah, so both my parents are dermatologists in Brazil. So when I was growing up, everything in my house was just about skin. So all the dinner time, the talk, we are talking about rashes and everything. So when I was first growing up, I [00:01:00] didn't want to be a doctor. I thought it was like their pathway, not mine. But when I had to come the time to choose what I was going to do, I couldn't think about anything else I loved and I wanted to do. So I ended up choosing medicine. But after med school, I tried to run away from dermatology again, and I really loved OB GYN because who doesn't love the beauty of a baby being born? So I thought about it, but in the end, dermatology was always something that I really liked. So I chose dermatology and now I'm really glad I did that, and I couldn't be happier, but it took a long time for me to admit that.

Christine Ko: I think sometimes we don't wanna do what our parents do.

Luiza Kalil: Yeah. I love it, and I'm happy, and now I can discuss cases with them, and we can go to meetings together, so I'm happy I chose it. 

Christine Ko: What do they do as dermatologists?

Luiza Kalil: [00:02:00] They both do general dermatology.

Christine Ko: General dermatology. Are they in the same practice or same university or? 

Luiza Kalil: They work together. They both teach in a medical school, and they both have a private practice, just the two of them, in Brazil. They work together in both places.

Christine Ko: You have to get along well though, if you're married and you work together. 

Luiza Kalil: Yeah, for sure. It's a lot. 

Christine Ko: Yeah. Okay. You were born in Brazil?

Luiza Kalil: Yes.

Christine Ko: You first came to the US to do the postdoctoral fellowship.

Luiza Kalil: Yes, correct.

Christine Ko: Can you talk a little bit about your journey from Brazil to the US? 

Luiza Kalil: Sure. I finished med school, and I did my dermatology residency in Brazil, and I was working there as an assistant professor for five years. And then I decided I wanted to do something else, so I started looking for postdoc opportunities online, and I found this one at Yale. So I sent my letters of recommendation, my cv, and I got an [00:03:00] interview. And then, when I went for the interview, Dr. King was like, yeah, I like you. You can start, but I need you here in three months, and I need you to be a doctor here in US because you have to see clinical trial patients, so you have to have your license.

And I was like, okay. And then after I hang up, I was like, whoa, how am I going to do that? Because I was a doctor in Brazil, but the pathway there is different. So I had to do all the USMLE steps in three months, and I had been out of the med school for almost nine years, so I had to study everything again. And I was a full-time dermatologist in Brazil. So at the time, I have two daughters, one and a half and three years old. I was doing dermatology every day. By the end of the day, I went back home, and I was spending time with my family, and after they were gone to bed, I usually studied for two or three hours every day.

And at first I was like, [00:04:00] wow. I'm not going to pass the test because it's just not enough time to do that. And I thought, if I don't pass, I'll tell him that I got pregnant or I'm sick and then I am not able to fly to US anymore. But then I did it. In three months I did all the steps and I came here and I did my postdoc, and I ended up staying as an Assistant Professor.

Christine Ko: That's amazing what you did. How did you find that energy to do that?

Luiza Kalil: In my mind I, I had two options to do it or not to do it, and I really wanted an opportunity. The only thing I needed to do was study. So, I had in my mind that I had three months. It was hard, but it was for short time. So I just, I didn't think about it, I just did it. 

Christine Ko: At the same time, you had these young daughters, one and a half years old and three years old. 

Luiza Kalil: Yeah. So I really thought about them because I didn't want to spend my time just studying and not playing with them and not seeing [00:05:00] them growing up. I really wanted to make sure that I was spending time with them, and I just started studying after they were sleeping. So my sleep was like low for three months. Short for sure, but just for three months.

Christine Ko: How much do you need to sleep? 

Luiza Kalil: I'm a good sleeper. Usually I need like eight or nine hours. So it was really hard. 

Christine Ko: Yeah. 

Luiza Kalil: But I just drank a lot of coffee. 

Christine Ko: Some people in medicine, it seems like they really don't need to sleep very much. Like there are people who are okay with four or five hours of sleep on a consistent basis, but I'm not someone like that. I do need more sleep. 

Luiza Kalil: Yeah, I'm similar, and I always thought I wanted to be this type of person because really I could spend my time doing other stuff, but I really need to sleep. So sometimes it's harder. But to study, I had to do that. So we do what we have to do.

Christine Ko: Yeah, I think that's true. [00:06:00] We do do what we need to do, and sometimes I feel like not really that time expands necessarily, but if I set a goal, and I'm very serious about it, then somehow the time works out. Versus if I feel like I have a lot of time sometimes, then I waste it somehow.

Luiza Kalil: Yeah. I'm similar. I work with like short timelines because you just have to do the things, so you kind of find the time to do it.

Christine Ko: During that three month period, did you ever feel unmotivated to reach the goal? 

Luiza Kalil: There were some days that I really thought I wasn't going to pass the tests because they were really hard, and I had been out of med school for a long time, so I really had to learn a lot of the things again. But I never thought about giving up. I just thought, maybe I am going to fail and then, I won't go. But since it just depended on me, I really worked hard because it was my dream. So I wanted to do that. 

Christine Ko: How did your parents feel about you doing [00:07:00] this? 

Luiza Kalil: They were really supportive, and my mother, she always says that she wants me to live close to her, but she knows that's not the best for my life. So she supports it, and they're really helpful. They come here to US often, like three times a year. They're here, and they're proud. So I'm happy to have them. 

Christine Ko: Are they able to take time off like that easily? 

Luiza Kalil: Yeah. They have been dermatologists for a long time, so they have more balance today. They can take some time off and come here to visit. My husband was also very supportive.

Christine Ko: Yeah. How long will they come for? 

Luiza Kalil: A week, usually. 

Christine Ko: Okay. Oh, that's nice.

Luiza Kalil: Yeah.

Christine Ko: And it's nice for your daughters.

Luiza Kalil: Yeah. And during summertime they are able to spend a whole month back in Brazil with them.

Christine Ko: When you're here on your own with your daughters, and your parents and your husband aren't here, how do you try to balance the work [00:08:00] and the life parts that you need to do? 

Luiza Kalil: This is really hard because of course I wanna be a good mother and a good wife and a good physician, and also a good daughter. Sometimes it'ss not possible to give a hundred percent to everything you're doing all the time, and I have really good people to help me. I have good friends. I have a good babysitter that's really helpful, and she's here with my daughters all the time. But mainly I just try to do my best. There are days that my daughters are sick and they need me, so my energy goes to them. And there are other days that I have had a difficult case at work, so I'm still thinking about it when I get home. There is no recipe in the end. Balance doesn't mean being perfect every day. I make my choices and sometimes I have to be okay with the fact that sometimes family needs more of me. Sometimes [00:09:00] work does, and for me sometimes just trying to have balance means that I'm trying my best and that should be enough. 

Christine Ko: How did you learn that?

Luiza Kalil: By trying and failing a lot of times. 

Christine Ko: I really love that you said, I just try to do my best, and balance does not mean being perfect. I actually think that very few people in medicine actually live that way.

Luiza Kalil: As physicians, we are always trying our best, and we study so hard that we always try to be as perfect as possible. We're humans, so no one is perfect. We have good days and bad days, and it's okay. It's hard for us to admit that we are going to fail sometimes, but we do.

Christine Ko: I think that there is a pervasive culture of, we need to be perfect, and sometimes, not always, but even further we can't admit to not being perfect. I am [00:10:00] so not perfect. We are as doctors, just human, like you said.

Luiza Kalil: And sometimes if you're not close enough, you just see the good parts about other people lives. So it's even harder because you don't see that all everybody around us is having hard times sometimes, and it's okay. 

Christine Ko: That is true too.

Luiza Kalil: Yeah. I'm not going to show the bad parts of my day in social media because who wants to see that?

Christine Ko: Do you have tips on how you thrive in your career and in your non-career life because you seem so grounded and smart about things in terms of, my best, that's gotta be good enough.

Luiza Kalil: It's not always easy, but I really love to work, so sometimes this is hard to try to find a balance. And, there are times that I feel like I'm working very hard and spending less time with my kids because we have those days. But then I remind myself that they're watching me and they see that I'm working hard because I [00:11:00] want to reach my dreams and I have goals, and no one can do that for me. So even in the days I am busy, and I feel guilty because I'm not with them, I think of it as an example for them. It's important for them to know the value of dedication. If you have a dream, you have to work for it. So, it's not always easy, but that's the the mentality I have. I am working hard because I want it because I have goals and I have dreams, and they have to understand that because it'll be important for them in the future too.

So I keep going to be a better mother and also a better physician. 

Christine Ko: Yeah. So smart. I think of you as very young, but I think you know things that I definitely did not when I was younger. I always knew that my kids are watching me because actually they see me at my worst. When they were younger, they were the ones who would point out my flaws, especially 'cause young kids, they don't really have that [00:12:00] filter. 

Luiza Kalil: Yeah, for sure.

Christine Ko: So I always knew they were watching me, but I didn't quite figure out until more recently, I would say maybe in the last five years, what you said. That it is a positive thing, actually a very positive thing, for them to see me pursuing a goal and being dedicated to it and really working hard for it. And failing, and trying again, still.

Luiza Kalil: This is really important because they have to know that we are working hard, but sometimes even as we are doing everything we can, things just keep happening and we fail sometimes, and that's okay too. 

Christine Ko: Yeah. What has been the best advice you've gotten so far?

Luiza Kalil: This could sound a little bit simple, but for me, I think the best advice I have received would be just to do what makes you happy, because that is what really matters. Being happy gives [00:13:00] us energy and gives us motivation just to keep going. 

Christine Ko: Yeah, I love it. Do you have any final thoughts? 

Luiza Kalil: Getting balance in life is really hard and so one thing that I've learned is to not spend more energy trying to compare myself with others because every pathway is different. We are all facing challenges along the way. In the end, we are all trying our best. I just think about the things I want. I think about how I want to be in the future and what I want for my life and for my kids' life, and I just keep going without thinking and comparing it with others. 

Christine Ko: I like it. Thank you so much for doing this with me. It was really fun to talk to you about these things.

Luiza Kalil: Thank you. I love being here.